Martin Hawes

How did you come to write the book?

Several years ago, Bob Brown suggested drawing up a list of moral precepts that were relevant to humanity's current situation. I wasn't enthusiastic until I realised that principles could be presented as challenges rather than as dos and don'ts. Once I began writing, the book acquired a life of its own.

What inspires you to write?

I feel inspired and driven in equal measure. What drives me is a sense ofurgency about the state the world is in. What inspires me is the convication that each of us has the potential to live rich and deeply fulfilling lives, free of conflict and unhappiness.

What are you passionate about?

Breaking the shell of confusion in which the mind has enclosed itself, and which is the ultimate cause of all conflict and suffering.

If you could have a conversation with anyone (alive or not) who would it be and what would you talk about?

I would enjoy talking over life's deep questions with anyone who was passionately interested in them, and who was willing to discuss them with an open mind.

How have your ideas and perspectives changed since writing Twelve Principles?

I've become more focussed on exploring the philosophical foundations on which the human world is ultimately built. The bedrock is the belief that we exist intime and space as separate 'me's' and 'you's' - but that bedrock is an illusion created by thought. It seems to me that, through understanding, we can break this illusion - and hence release our innate compassion and joy.

What is the essential message of Twelve Principles?

Each of us bears a share of responsibility for what is happening in the world, and each of us can make a difference.

Is there a common thread that runs through all twelve of the principles?

The common thread is the need to be aware of our relationship to each other and to the world as a whole. Only by understanding that relationship can we live happily and respond intelligently to the many problems that confront us.

Your book ranges across a broad spectrum from global politics to personal spirituality. Are you advocating change at a political or at a spiritual level?

Ultimately there is no division between the political and the spiritual. Politics is the art of living together, and to live together we need to understand who and what we are. We are tearing the world, and each other, apart because our hearts and minds are in confusion. Change must begin with the individual, although political change is also necessary.

Can individuals really make a difference in a world controlled by oil companies and big business?

For all its power, big business does not control the human mind, and ultimately it is the mind that shapes the world. Big business exists because we have created a society that worships profit and power. Change begins with the individual, and by questioning our values we can lay the foundations for sane and happy society.

The emphasis of modern culture is very much on "me first". In urging people to live responsibly, aren't you just whistling into the wind?

Many people realise that an ego-centred culture is neither globally sustainable nor personally fulfilling. The thirty million people who poured onto the world's streets in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion weren't there to gratify their personal egos. To be a human being is to be related to the world, and fulfilment lies in understanding that relationship and living accordingly.

What would you say to people who claim your stories are politically charged - like the one that's pro-environment and anti-logging?

They are right of course, and I make no apologies. Our political systems are there to be used - and challenged if necessary. But politics alone won't change society, and you don't have to act politically to make a difference in the world.

Some people accuse conservationists of wanting us all to go back to living in caves. How would you respond to that?

Most people were living sustainably only two or three generations ago. We need to cut back on our material consumption, but we have the technology to use materials far more efficiently than our grandparents did. Communities already exist where people are living sustainably, while enjoying most of the conveniences of the modern world.

Do you support the sabotage of government property as described in the story about Angie Zelter?

Angie Zelter and her colleagues are posing a more important question, namely: Should we support governments that maintain the apparatus to exterminate human life on an unimaginable scale? In this context, one has to ask whether government property is more important than the human lives it is designed to destroy.

How would you reply to people who see your ideas as anti-materialistic and out of touch with what people around the world actually want?

I question the sanity of consuming more and more material goods at the expense of our children's wellbeing, and indeed survival. I also question what we mean by wealth. People everywhere are striving to be happy, but in its current form materialism is creating enormous suffering and insecurity in the world.

What does integrity mean to you?

It means not being fragmented in oneself and in one's daily life. At present we tend to live in fragments, dividing the spiritual from the material, 'myself' from the world. But life is one movement; as you think and see and feel, so shall you live.

Do you identify yourself with a particular religion or school of thought?

No. I've been strongly influenced by Krishnamurti, but I do not accept what he says unquestioningly - and in any case, he did not advocate a system of thought. What's important is to have a free mind, and a free mind cannot identify itself with ideas because ideas cannot encapsulate life.

Who is Krishnamurti? What is the nature of his influence on you?

Krishnamurti was a philosopher who devoted his life to exploring the source of human conflict and the possibility of living without conflict. His work has helped me to understand the nature of humanity's problems and to appreciate the shortcomings of the traditional ways that people have tried to solve them.

What religions are sympathetic to your ideas and principles?

My ideas probably overlap with many religions. But few religions encourage their followers to question; and to me, the freedom to question is crucial if we want to live intelligently.

We're used to receiving advice on living from philosophers and religious teachers. How should readers approach your 'principles' coming from an unknown person?

In a sense it's fortunate that I'm unknown, because readers can approach what I say without preconceptions. When we accept authority we tend to stop thinking for ourselves.

What are you saying that hasn't been said a thousand times before?

Twelve Principles focuses on the relationship between our personal lives and what is happening in the world. It points out that everything we do affects the world - which means that we have the power to make a difference. I'm not the first person to point this out, but I've expressed it in language that is relevant to our immediate situation.

As I was reading Twelve Principles I found myself agreeing with much of what you said, but at the end I was left wondering - What exactly are you suggesting I should do?

There aren't any rules for living, and that is the beauty of it. Others may guide us, but the rest is up to us. When one reads the personal accounts in Twelve Principles one is struck by how the twelve people interviewed have followed such widely different paths. What I'm saying is, "Be aware of how you are living and of your relationship to the rest of the world." That very awareness will help you discover the path that is right for you.

You advocate living with less, do you think this is realistic? Do you do it?

Living unsustainably, as we are doing now, is not 'realistic'. At present, one-fifth of humanity is strip-mining the future while two billion people live in degrading poverty. By western standards I live quite simply, but I feel blessed with extraordinary wealth.

What do you think are the biggest problems facing us?

Escalating global warming eclipses all our other problems because it threatens to make our planet uninhabitable within the lifetimes of our children or grandchildren. We have to find a way to live on this Earth without unleashing nuclear war, or worse; and we have to address the fact that nearly a billion of our brothers and sisters don't have enough to eat.

What would be your message to the world's political leaders?

Wake up, or stand aside - for the sake of humanity. Most of our so-called leaders are sleepwalking, and leading us to disaster. If they can't meet the challenges of our time, it is up to us to throw them out.

What can people do in their everyday lives to help make the world a better place?

I would say, "Engage with the wider world and question the way you are living now. Stop telling yourself that change is not possible; learn about people who have made a difference. Listen to your heart and be prepared to take risks. And remember that every time you use energy derived from fossil fuel, you are jeopardising your children's future."

Are you hopeful about the future?

Interviewing the people who feature in Twelve Principles strengthened my hope in humanity. There is hope, but it depends on us. Each one of us has the potential to change, and if we can fulfil that potential then all things are possible.